Do you agree? A comment from Giants pitching coach J.P. Martinez inspired some skepticism from some ball-knowers.
This morning, I listened to Mike Ferrin and Jim Duquette discuss on their Power Alley show for SiriusXM the interview Andrew Baggarly posted to The Athletic yesterday (sub required) with new pitching coach J.P. Martinez. They were piqued by Martinez’s comment that went in the headline, that “We will have 15 or 16 legitimate starters,” and that compelled them to start an exercise I think we can finish.
Do the San Francisco Giants really have 15 or 16 legitimate starters right now?
This isn’t an abstraction about which prospects could become starters at some point in the near future. Martinez’s full quote is unambiguous:
[…] it will be the first time in big-league camp since I’ve been here that we will have 15 or 16 legitimate starters — upper-level, legitimate guys that can start. To have that workload and that experience and to see the competition amongst that group will be huge for us. We want to feel like when guys get to the big leagues, they’re prepared to contribute and not treading water or trying to survive.
With that in mind, let’s see if we can get to 15 or 16.
Power Alley is the only baseball show I care to listen to — so, I’m as skeptical as they are regarding the matter, but we follow the team a bit more closely so I think we might be able to answer this a bit better. Ferrin and Duquette were only able to get to maybe 14.
Full disclosure before we begin: I think their show is great. Mike Ferrin is a perfect ambassador for MLB. I interviewed him on the old McCovey Chronicles podcast; if you don’t know who he is, here’s a bio. Duquette is a baseball exec who was briefly the Mets’ GM.
The obvious (6)
- Logan Webb
- Robbie Ray
- Justin Verlander
- Kyle Harrison
- Jordan Hicks
- Hayden Birdsong
Regardless of how you feel about some names in this bunch, I think it’s pretty easy to say — just for the sake of defending Martinez’s comment — that these are no doubt starters.
The could-bes (11)
- Landen Roupp
- Tristan Beck
- Keaton Winn
- Mason Black
- Trevor McDonald
I have my doubts about Beck as a starter — his return from the aneurysm last season was wonderful to see, but I really think he’s effective in that Jakob Junis role of 2-3 innings at a time with the occasional stretch to 4 innings. Still, that’s, effectively, a starter in today’s game. Winn’s health might prevent him from being anything more than a reliever, and he’s still working his way back from ulnar nerve transposition surgery which could hinder his availability and, therefore usage.
Basically, this group “feels” like it’s tilting 55-45 in favor of them being relievers, but they all have starter upside.
The Carsons (14)
- Carson Whisenhunt
- Carson Ragsdale
- Carson Seymour
Whisenhunt is ranked as the McCovey Chronicles’ #2 overall prospect for the Giants. As Brady wrote in the ranking post:
In 25 starts and 104.2 innings with the River Cats, Whisenhunt had a 5.42 ERA and a 4.66 FIP. Those aren’t standout numbers, but they look a lot better when you remember that Whisenhunt had thrown just 66.1 innings in the Minors prior to this year.
The most impressive part of his performance, though, was the strikeouts. The lefty, who just turned 24 and was the team’s second-round pick in 2022, struck out 11.61 batters per nine innings pitched. That figure was ninth-highest among the 92 Pacific Coast League pitchers with at least 50 innings last year.
Meanwhile, Ragsdale might be a better fit as a power reliever, but the Giants have been developing him as a starting pitcher. He’ll turn 27 in May and so I’d imagine he’d at least get a spot start in 2025.
Seymour’s spot on this list seems a little iffy, to be honest. As Brady wrote a couple of weeks ago, after the McCovey Chronicles community ranked him the #21 prospect:
[…] while he’s been developed as a starter, don’t be surprised if his first — and perhaps only — opportunities come in relief.
The rest (17?)
- Joey Lucchesi
- Kai-Wei Teng
- Enny Romero
Now, the word “legitimate” has always been thrown around — usually in the form of “legit” — and like, say, the word “literally,” it’s true meaning has been diluted by this overuse, and so it’s in that spirit that I mention these three.
We’ve seen Kai-Wei Teng and witnessed his inability to throw strikes. But, the team did re-sign him after he cleared waivers and elected free agency. They obviously see something in there. We’ll find out if he winds up being converted to a reliever. But, technically, he’s a starter with some experience.
Meanwhile, Lucchesi and Romero are probably relievers if they get near the major league roster, but it’s worth pointing out that 77 of Lucchesi’s 81 major league appearances were in a starting role; and, despite appearing mostly as a reliever in 5 MLB seasons (his last one being in 2018), Romero was developed by the Tampa Bay Rays as a starter and since being bounced out of the bigs, he’s been a starter in Japan and Dominican leagues.
Carson Seymour, Joey Lucchesi, Kai-Wei Teng, and Enny Romero don’t scream legitimate starter, so, that drops the count where I feel comfortable taking this list to down to 14. Which — hey — that’s basically where the hosts landed.
Baggarly’s interview doesn’t point us towards any dark horse candidates and I’m not confident that I’ve turned over every stone. Does this list support J.P. Martinez’s assertion? Or do you agree with Ferrin & Duquette? Do you think some names should be swapped out with others? Feel that more names should be added to the list because the team’s pitching depth cup truly runneth over?